Making a loss when working a delivery job? [closed]

I occasionally do part time delivery work for a local takeaway. They provide an amount of pay for 3 hours. However if I do a large range of deliveries in large quantities, I often find after counting my money I don't make any money but in fact a loss from the cost of petrol outweighing the pay. The employer keeps tips and delivery charges.

My question is, is there any way I can negotiate getting the delivery charges, or would it be legal for me to keep the tips and not make the employer aware. Or even just quit as it's obviously it's not worth it as I'm not actually getting the amount of pay I'm being told.

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4 Answers
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If you are employed by the takeaway, then as you are in the UK, you are covered by minimum wage legislation. Your employer should be paying you the costs of doing the deliveries, plus the national minimum wage (which varies by age). If they're not, you should demand this - which may in practice result in you losing your job, but either way you'll be owed back pay for the difference.

There's a possibility you are actually "self-employed", in which you have no recourse other than to leave as you are considered to be responsible for yourself. However, it's very tempting for businesses to classify people as self-employed when they're not, and you can challenge that status - there have been some well-publicised court cases about this, for example this one. You can read the definition of self-employed here. I think you could probably point to not getting to keep tips as one piece of evidence that you aren't self-employed. If you're paid hourly rather than by the delivery I think that would also strengthen your case.

If you are employed, have a look at
https://checkyourpay.campaign.gov.uk/#is_your_employer_paying_you_properly_ for more information on your rights.

As mentioned on that page, you can also talk to ACAS or report them directly to HMRC, anonymously.

They may also be obliged to hand over your tips in addition to the minimum wage, but I'm not sure of the exact rules on that. For example it might be ok for your employer to collect them and share with the "non customer facing" staff like the cooks. There's some information about it here and it's another thing you can ask ACAS/HMRC about.

You have no direct rights to any delivery charge your employer charges customers, but of course they may use that to fund paying you your wages and expenses.

What are delivery charges?

From what I remember working delivery we had 3 values - my rate (very low), fuel price and tips. At the end of the week I showed distance I travelled, my MpG and received money to cover this expense I made at the beginning of workweek.

So my employer paid for my time and resources. Tips were mine to keep (as in I didn't enclosed them when returning from delivery).

If your employer is keeping tips and not covering the cost of fuel I would advise to leave the job. It doesn't look like it is worth the hassle of negotiating.

But of course I would keep it simple, just say (don't ask) that you think you should be keeping delivery charges and tips as they are basically cost of delivery made by you.

If they won't agree with you - leave.

is there any way I can negotiate getting the delivery charges

You can try, but I strongly suspect you'll get the answer "no". Your employer is pretty clearly abusive.

or would it be legal for me to keep the tips and don't make the employer aware

No. If your contract says that they keep the tips, they keep the tips. Hiding tips from them is pretty clearly fraudulent.

Or even just quit

This is always an option. While in general we say "don't quit without a new job to go to", if you're actually losing money doing this, just quit right now.

Your employer may be breaking the law by withholding tips and/or failing to cover your expenses and a minimum wage, as others have noted above. Don't muddy the waters by potentially breaking the law yourself by keeping money under the table if there is a work agreement or contract that requires you to pass the tips along.

You should do two things: immediately start looking for another job. When you feel comfortable doing so, go to your employer and tactfully describe how you are losing money, and show it on paper with numbers. From the sound of things, they probably won't want to help you out, hence suggestion to look for another job.

I'm not sure that quitting immediately is beneficial, as a job that covers your living expenses minus 50 lbs a month (just hypothetically) is better than no job and being in the hole for all of your living expenses. The former (your present situation) is admittedly not sustainable in the long term, but the latter is worse, it's a bit of a disaster if you can't immediately get another job.