EC261 compensation when passenger resigned from delayed flight
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EC261 guarantees passengers the right to abandon journey if the expected delay is bigger than 5 hours.
The court decisions interpret EC261 that a delay of at least 3h (depending on the distance) is a base for a compensation as if the flight was cancelled.
Can one use these two jointly, that is: when the delay of at least 5 hours is announced, declare resignation from the journey and claim both return of the ticket price AND the fixed EC261 compensation?
regulations eu compensation
asked Oct 15 '17 at 13:04
sygi
31017
 |Â
show 5 more comments
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
EC261 guarantees passengers the right to abandon journey if the expected delay is bigger than 5 hours.
The court decisions interpret EC261 that a delay of at least 3h (depending on the distance) is a base for a compensation as if the flight was cancelled.
Can one use these two jointly, that is: when the delay of at least 5 hours is announced, declare resignation from the journey and claim both return of the ticket price AND the fixed EC261 compensation?
regulations eu compensation
asked Oct 15 '17 at 13:04
sygi
31017
2
@Irked, why? You're going to have to make alternative arrangements at short notice, incurring cost and stress. There's a reason it's called compensation.
– Peter Taylor
Oct 18 '17 at 7:09
1
@Irked Well, imagine (what's probably true in 90% of the cases) that someone's flight is delayed a long time and there are many earlier flights he could take, but they are at other airlines and cost more. It seems plausible to me for the airline to cover the ticket, but as it now they are not required to do this, so someone may use compensation for that.
– sygi
Oct 18 '17 at 9:54
1
Also, most of the delays could be prevented with more money for planes, emergency stuff etc. from the airline. But they don't provide it exactly because airlines are greedy and it's cheaper to pay compensation than to not have delays. Why should passengers be the ones to suffer?
– sygi
Oct 18 '17 at 9:56
@Irked: No, the ticket prices are mostly regulated by market, and the more punctual airline can offer cheaper prices as they won't have those costs. They are only part of the cost for airlines which have lots of cancellations and delays. This is why AirBerlin (which was one of the worst) is filing for bankruptcy now. They had to pay millions in compensation due to delays - but they cannot raise ticket prices to cover it because other airlines fly the same routes cheap (and they can charge less because they do not have to pay those claims).
– George Y.
Oct 18 '17 at 16:47
@Irked - the airlines have been filing for bankruptcy as long as I've been flying, way before the compensation was introduced. And nobody's losing money, as your canceled flights are refunded (via chargeback) - note that you're not eligible for compensation if notified 14+ days in advance about cancellation. And yes I'm happy a crappy airline would leave the market - makes potential room for better airlines.
– George Y.
Oct 19 '17 at 2:12
 |Â
show 5 more comments
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
EC261 guarantees passengers the right to abandon journey if the expected delay is bigger than 5 hours.
The court decisions interpret EC261 that a delay of at least 3h (depending on the distance) is a base for a compensation as if the flight was cancelled.
Can one use these two jointly, that is: when the delay of at least 5 hours is announced, declare resignation from the journey and claim both return of the ticket price AND the fixed EC261 compensation?
regulations eu compensation
asked Oct 15 '17 at 13:04
sygi
31017
EC261 guarantees passengers the right to abandon journey if the expected delay is bigger than 5 hours.
The court decisions interpret EC261 that a delay of at least 3h (depending on the distance) is a base for a compensation as if the flight was cancelled.
Can one use these two jointly, that is: when the delay of at least 5 hours is announced, declare resignation from the journey and claim both return of the ticket price AND the fixed EC261 compensation?
regulations eu compensation
regulations eu compensation
asked Oct 15 '17 at 13:04
sygi
31017
asked Oct 15 '17 at 13:04
sygi
31017
asked Oct 15 '17 at 13:04
sygi
31017
asked Oct 15 '17 at 13:04
sygi
31017
asked Oct 15 '17 at 13:04
sygi
31017
31017
2
@Irked, why? You're going to have to make alternative arrangements at short notice, incurring cost and stress. There's a reason it's called compensation.
– Peter Taylor
Oct 18 '17 at 7:09
1
@Irked Well, imagine (what's probably true in 90% of the cases) that someone's flight is delayed a long time and there are many earlier flights he could take, but they are at other airlines and cost more. It seems plausible to me for the airline to cover the ticket, but as it now they are not required to do this, so someone may use compensation for that.
– sygi
Oct 18 '17 at 9:54
1
Also, most of the delays could be prevented with more money for planes, emergency stuff etc. from the airline. But they don't provide it exactly because airlines are greedy and it's cheaper to pay compensation than to not have delays. Why should passengers be the ones to suffer?
– sygi
Oct 18 '17 at 9:56
@Irked: No, the ticket prices are mostly regulated by market, and the more punctual airline can offer cheaper prices as they won't have those costs. They are only part of the cost for airlines which have lots of cancellations and delays. This is why AirBerlin (which was one of the worst) is filing for bankruptcy now. They had to pay millions in compensation due to delays - but they cannot raise ticket prices to cover it because other airlines fly the same routes cheap (and they can charge less because they do not have to pay those claims).
– George Y.
Oct 18 '17 at 16:47
@Irked - the airlines have been filing for bankruptcy as long as I've been flying, way before the compensation was introduced. And nobody's losing money, as your canceled flights are refunded (via chargeback) - note that you're not eligible for compensation if notified 14+ days in advance about cancellation. And yes I'm happy a crappy airline would leave the market - makes potential room for better airlines.
– George Y.
Oct 19 '17 at 2:12
 |Â
show 5 more comments
2
@Irked, why? You're going to have to make alternative arrangements at short notice, incurring cost and stress. There's a reason it's called compensation.
– Peter Taylor
Oct 18 '17 at 7:09
1
@Irked Well, imagine (what's probably true in 90% of the cases) that someone's flight is delayed a long time and there are many earlier flights he could take, but they are at other airlines and cost more. It seems plausible to me for the airline to cover the ticket, but as it now they are not required to do this, so someone may use compensation for that.
– sygi
Oct 18 '17 at 9:54
1
Also, most of the delays could be prevented with more money for planes, emergency stuff etc. from the airline. But they don't provide it exactly because airlines are greedy and it's cheaper to pay compensation than to not have delays. Why should passengers be the ones to suffer?
– sygi
Oct 18 '17 at 9:56
@Irked: No, the ticket prices are mostly regulated by market, and the more punctual airline can offer cheaper prices as they won't have those costs. They are only part of the cost for airlines which have lots of cancellations and delays. This is why AirBerlin (which was one of the worst) is filing for bankruptcy now. They had to pay millions in compensation due to delays - but they cannot raise ticket prices to cover it because other airlines fly the same routes cheap (and they can charge less because they do not have to pay those claims).
– George Y.
Oct 18 '17 at 16:47
@Irked - the airlines have been filing for bankruptcy as long as I've been flying, way before the compensation was introduced. And nobody's losing money, as your canceled flights are refunded (via chargeback) - note that you're not eligible for compensation if notified 14+ days in advance about cancellation. And yes I'm happy a crappy airline would leave the market - makes potential room for better airlines.
– George Y.
Oct 19 '17 at 2:12
2
2
@Irked, why? You're going to have to make alternative arrangements at short notice, incurring cost and stress. There's a reason it's called compensation.
– Peter Taylor
Oct 18 '17 at 7:09
@Irked, why? You're going to have to make alternative arrangements at short notice, incurring cost and stress. There's a reason it's called compensation.
– Peter Taylor
Oct 18 '17 at 7:09
1
1
@Irked Well, imagine (what's probably true in 90% of the cases) that someone's flight is delayed a long time and there are many earlier flights he could take, but they are at other airlines and cost more. It seems plausible to me for the airline to cover the ticket, but as it now they are not required to do this, so someone may use compensation for that.
– sygi
Oct 18 '17 at 9:54
@Irked Well, imagine (what's probably true in 90% of the cases) that someone's flight is delayed a long time and there are many earlier flights he could take, but they are at other airlines and cost more. It seems plausible to me for the airline to cover the ticket, but as it now they are not required to do this, so someone may use compensation for that.
– sygi
Oct 18 '17 at 9:54
1
1
Also, most of the delays could be prevented with more money for planes, emergency stuff etc. from the airline. But they don't provide it exactly because airlines are greedy and it's cheaper to pay compensation than to not have delays. Why should passengers be the ones to suffer?
– sygi
Oct 18 '17 at 9:56
Also, most of the delays could be prevented with more money for planes, emergency stuff etc. from the airline. But they don't provide it exactly because airlines are greedy and it's cheaper to pay compensation than to not have delays. Why should passengers be the ones to suffer?
– sygi
Oct 18 '17 at 9:56
@Irked: No, the ticket prices are mostly regulated by market, and the more punctual airline can offer cheaper prices as they won't have those costs. They are only part of the cost for airlines which have lots of cancellations and delays. This is why AirBerlin (which was one of the worst) is filing for bankruptcy now. They had to pay millions in compensation due to delays - but they cannot raise ticket prices to cover it because other airlines fly the same routes cheap (and they can charge less because they do not have to pay those claims).
– George Y.
Oct 18 '17 at 16:47
@Irked: No, the ticket prices are mostly regulated by market, and the more punctual airline can offer cheaper prices as they won't have those costs. They are only part of the cost for airlines which have lots of cancellations and delays. This is why AirBerlin (which was one of the worst) is filing for bankruptcy now. They had to pay millions in compensation due to delays - but they cannot raise ticket prices to cover it because other airlines fly the same routes cheap (and they can charge less because they do not have to pay those claims).
– George Y.
Oct 18 '17 at 16:47
@Irked - the airlines have been filing for bankruptcy as long as I've been flying, way before the compensation was introduced. And nobody's losing money, as your canceled flights are refunded (via chargeback) - note that you're not eligible for compensation if notified 14+ days in advance about cancellation. And yes I'm happy a crappy airline would leave the market - makes potential room for better airlines.
– George Y.
Oct 19 '17 at 2:12
@Irked - the airlines have been filing for bankruptcy as long as I've been flying, way before the compensation was introduced. And nobody's losing money, as your canceled flights are refunded (via chargeback) - note that you're not eligible for compensation if notified 14+ days in advance about cancellation. And yes I'm happy a crappy airline would leave the market - makes potential room for better airlines.
– George Y.
Oct 19 '17 at 2:12
 |Â
show 5 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
Based on the law, my understanding is that yes, you can. The law is a bit complicated to read as it creates multiple dependencies, so we need to follow them all:
Article 6. Delay
- When an operating air carrier reasonably expects a flight to be delayed beyond its scheduled time of departure: ..
(iii) when the delay is at least five hours, the assistance specified
in Article 8(1)(a).
We have a reference to Article 8. Now let's look at 8(1)(a):
Article 8. Right to reimbursement or re-routing
- Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:
(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in
Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which
it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for
the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any
purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together
with, when relevant,
I highlighted the reference to Article 7, because it it important:
Article 7. Right to compensation
Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall receive compensation
Since the reference to article 7 is made, you shall be eligible for compensation. Note that it may be reduced by 50% if the airline offers you alternative flight subject to 7(2) - which in my experience almost never happens.
PS. Some commenters think it is greedy - but there is reason for this logic in the law. If the rules for delay were just refund of the ticket, while for the cancellation the airlines would have to pay both refund and compensation, some airlines (hello R#@$@#air) would instead of canceling your flight just announce that "your flight has been now delayed for three days" as a means to avoid paying you the compensation.
answered Oct 18 '17 at 2:00
George Y.
18k12874
2
Ah, good old R#@$@#air, how I detest them. The wife and I are off to Bordeaux in December, and have deliberately opted to go via train instead of flying with you-know-who, despite the extra cost and it taking a couple more hours. And I completely agree with your point.
– MadHatter
Oct 18 '17 at 14:42
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
Based on the law, my understanding is that yes, you can. The law is a bit complicated to read as it creates multiple dependencies, so we need to follow them all:
Article 6. Delay
- When an operating air carrier reasonably expects a flight to be delayed beyond its scheduled time of departure: ..
(iii) when the delay is at least five hours, the assistance specified
in Article 8(1)(a).
We have a reference to Article 8. Now let's look at 8(1)(a):
Article 8. Right to reimbursement or re-routing
- Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:
(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in
Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which
it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for
the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any
purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together
with, when relevant,
I highlighted the reference to Article 7, because it it important:
Article 7. Right to compensation
Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall receive compensation
Since the reference to article 7 is made, you shall be eligible for compensation. Note that it may be reduced by 50% if the airline offers you alternative flight subject to 7(2) - which in my experience almost never happens.
PS. Some commenters think it is greedy - but there is reason for this logic in the law. If the rules for delay were just refund of the ticket, while for the cancellation the airlines would have to pay both refund and compensation, some airlines (hello R#@$@#air) would instead of canceling your flight just announce that "your flight has been now delayed for three days" as a means to avoid paying you the compensation.
answered Oct 18 '17 at 2:00
George Y.
18k12874
2
Ah, good old R#@$@#air, how I detest them. The wife and I are off to Bordeaux in December, and have deliberately opted to go via train instead of flying with you-know-who, despite the extra cost and it taking a couple more hours. And I completely agree with your point.
– MadHatter
Oct 18 '17 at 14:42
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
Based on the law, my understanding is that yes, you can. The law is a bit complicated to read as it creates multiple dependencies, so we need to follow them all:
Article 6. Delay
- When an operating air carrier reasonably expects a flight to be delayed beyond its scheduled time of departure: ..
(iii) when the delay is at least five hours, the assistance specified
in Article 8(1)(a).
We have a reference to Article 8. Now let's look at 8(1)(a):
Article 8. Right to reimbursement or re-routing
- Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:
(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in
Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which
it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for
the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any
purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together
with, when relevant,
I highlighted the reference to Article 7, because it it important:
Article 7. Right to compensation
Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall receive compensation
Since the reference to article 7 is made, you shall be eligible for compensation. Note that it may be reduced by 50% if the airline offers you alternative flight subject to 7(2) - which in my experience almost never happens.
PS. Some commenters think it is greedy - but there is reason for this logic in the law. If the rules for delay were just refund of the ticket, while for the cancellation the airlines would have to pay both refund and compensation, some airlines (hello R#@$@#air) would instead of canceling your flight just announce that "your flight has been now delayed for three days" as a means to avoid paying you the compensation.
answered Oct 18 '17 at 2:00
George Y.
18k12874
2
Ah, good old R#@$@#air, how I detest them. The wife and I are off to Bordeaux in December, and have deliberately opted to go via train instead of flying with you-know-who, despite the extra cost and it taking a couple more hours. And I completely agree with your point.
– MadHatter
Oct 18 '17 at 14:42
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
Based on the law, my understanding is that yes, you can. The law is a bit complicated to read as it creates multiple dependencies, so we need to follow them all:
Article 6. Delay
- When an operating air carrier reasonably expects a flight to be delayed beyond its scheduled time of departure: ..
(iii) when the delay is at least five hours, the assistance specified
in Article 8(1)(a).
We have a reference to Article 8. Now let's look at 8(1)(a):
Article 8. Right to reimbursement or re-routing
- Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:
(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in
Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which
it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for
the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any
purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together
with, when relevant,
I highlighted the reference to Article 7, because it it important:
Article 7. Right to compensation
Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall receive compensation
Since the reference to article 7 is made, you shall be eligible for compensation. Note that it may be reduced by 50% if the airline offers you alternative flight subject to 7(2) - which in my experience almost never happens.
PS. Some commenters think it is greedy - but there is reason for this logic in the law. If the rules for delay were just refund of the ticket, while for the cancellation the airlines would have to pay both refund and compensation, some airlines (hello R#@$@#air) would instead of canceling your flight just announce that "your flight has been now delayed for three days" as a means to avoid paying you the compensation.
answered Oct 18 '17 at 2:00
George Y.
18k12874
Based on the law, my understanding is that yes, you can. The law is a bit complicated to read as it creates multiple dependencies, so we need to follow them all:
Article 6. Delay
- When an operating air carrier reasonably expects a flight to be delayed beyond its scheduled time of departure: ..
(iii) when the delay is at least five hours, the assistance specified
in Article 8(1)(a).
We have a reference to Article 8. Now let's look at 8(1)(a):
Article 8. Right to reimbursement or re-routing
- Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:
(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in
Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which
it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for
the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any
purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together
with, when relevant,
I highlighted the reference to Article 7, because it it important:
Article 7. Right to compensation
Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall receive compensation
Since the reference to article 7 is made, you shall be eligible for compensation. Note that it may be reduced by 50% if the airline offers you alternative flight subject to 7(2) - which in my experience almost never happens.
PS. Some commenters think it is greedy - but there is reason for this logic in the law. If the rules for delay were just refund of the ticket, while for the cancellation the airlines would have to pay both refund and compensation, some airlines (hello R#@$@#air) would instead of canceling your flight just announce that "your flight has been now delayed for three days" as a means to avoid paying you the compensation.
answered Oct 18 '17 at 2:00
George Y.
18k12874
answered Oct 18 '17 at 2:00
George Y.
18k12874
answered Oct 18 '17 at 2:00
George Y.
18k12874
answered Oct 18 '17 at 2:00
George Y.
18k12874
18k12874
2
Ah, good old R#@$@#air, how I detest them. The wife and I are off to Bordeaux in December, and have deliberately opted to go via train instead of flying with you-know-who, despite the extra cost and it taking a couple more hours. And I completely agree with your point.
– MadHatter
Oct 18 '17 at 14:42
add a comment |Â
2
Ah, good old R#@$@#air, how I detest them. The wife and I are off to Bordeaux in December, and have deliberately opted to go via train instead of flying with you-know-who, despite the extra cost and it taking a couple more hours. And I completely agree with your point.
– MadHatter
Oct 18 '17 at 14:42
2
2
Ah, good old R#@$@#air, how I detest them. The wife and I are off to Bordeaux in December, and have deliberately opted to go via train instead of flying with you-know-who, despite the extra cost and it taking a couple more hours. And I completely agree with your point.
– MadHatter
Oct 18 '17 at 14:42
Ah, good old R#@$@#air, how I detest them. The wife and I are off to Bordeaux in December, and have deliberately opted to go via train instead of flying with you-know-who, despite the extra cost and it taking a couple more hours. And I completely agree with your point.
– MadHatter
Oct 18 '17 at 14:42
add a comment |Â
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2
@Irked, why? You're going to have to make alternative arrangements at short notice, incurring cost and stress. There's a reason it's called compensation.
– Peter Taylor
Oct 18 '17 at 7:09
1
@Irked Well, imagine (what's probably true in 90% of the cases) that someone's flight is delayed a long time and there are many earlier flights he could take, but they are at other airlines and cost more. It seems plausible to me for the airline to cover the ticket, but as it now they are not required to do this, so someone may use compensation for that.
– sygi
Oct 18 '17 at 9:54
1
Also, most of the delays could be prevented with more money for planes, emergency stuff etc. from the airline. But they don't provide it exactly because airlines are greedy and it's cheaper to pay compensation than to not have delays. Why should passengers be the ones to suffer?
– sygi
Oct 18 '17 at 9:56
@Irked: No, the ticket prices are mostly regulated by market, and the more punctual airline can offer cheaper prices as they won't have those costs. They are only part of the cost for airlines which have lots of cancellations and delays. This is why AirBerlin (which was one of the worst) is filing for bankruptcy now. They had to pay millions in compensation due to delays - but they cannot raise ticket prices to cover it because other airlines fly the same routes cheap (and they can charge less because they do not have to pay those claims).
– George Y.
Oct 18 '17 at 16:47
@Irked - the airlines have been filing for bankruptcy as long as I've been flying, way before the compensation was introduced. And nobody's losing money, as your canceled flights are refunded (via chargeback) - note that you're not eligible for compensation if notified 14+ days in advance about cancellation. And yes I'm happy a crappy airline would leave the market - makes potential room for better airlines.
– George Y.
Oct 19 '17 at 2:12