Can a Battle Master fighter apply the Feinting Attack and Trip Attack maneuvers to the same attack roll?
Can a Battle Master fighter apply the Feinting Attack and Trip Attack maneuvers to the same attack roll?
Battle Master fighters (PHB, p. 73-74) can apply a number of maneuvers to their attacks, including Feinting Attack and Trip Attack.
Feinting Attack is a bonus action and uses one manoeuvre here, during the bonus action. This gives advantage on the attack roll, with the superiority die adding to the damage on a hit. Trip Attack applies on a hit, forcing a Strength saving throw to avoid being knocked prone and adding the superiority die to the damage as well.
I understand that no more than one manoeuvre can be used per attack.
If my fighter uses Feinting Attack and then attacks on the same turn, can I apply another manoeuvre to that attack, even though Feinting Attack is affecting the attack roll already?
Specifically, would I be able to use Trip Attack on that attack roll (thus getting the benefits of both Feinting and Trip on that attack)? In this case, would I be able to add two superiority dice to the damage on this attack roll?
I’m not interested in house rules, just clarification on RAW.
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@NautArch More specifically: this answer to that question is 100% related.
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– Axoren
Sep 18 '18 at 12:55
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@James I have cleaned up and condensed your question significantly as it makes the question clearer and easier to read and answer. The parts I removed were not necessary for understanding the question and we find that the less cluttered a question is the better! As always, feel free to edit to change anything you find objectionable about the changes.
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– Rubiksmoose
Sep 18 '18 at 15:25
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I’ve got no issue with the edits since they will help people who are looking for answers to the same question
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– James
Sep 19 '18 at 8:32
3 Answers
3
No, you can't, because both superiority dice would apply to the same damage roll (for the same attack).
5e official rules designer Jeremy Crawford says the following (as quoted in Xanthir's answer):
Twitter user: Hi guys can a fighter use 2 maneuvers - Riposte on enemy's attack & Pushing Attack on his attack? i.e 1/attack
Crawford: The intent is no more than 1 maneuver associated with any attack. Riposte is in a gray area, but I would say no.
Rules on maneuvers per attack, from the Battle Master's Combat Superiority feature description (PHB, p. 73):
You learn three maneuvers of your choice [...] You can use only one maneuver per attack.
Feinting Attack says:
You can expend one superiority die and use a bonus action on your turn to feint [...] You have advantage on your next attack roll against that creature this turn. If that attack hits, add the superiority die to the attack's damage roll.
Trip Attack says:
When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to knock the target down. You add the superiority die to the attack's damage roll [...]
The use of your bonus action for feinting is an additional expenditure of resources to apply the advantage condition and superiority die to your next attack. The maneuver is still applied to the "next" attack and is not a separate event.
The Trip Attack modifies the attack to add a saving throw to the attack after landing a hit. It adds an a saving-throw property (to trip) and a superiority die to the damage. This saving throw is not an additional or separate attack.
If you "sandwich" them, you are applying two maneuvers to the same attack at the cost of two superiority dice and a bonus action to modify a single attack, which is not allowed. The litmus test for this is that if you were to use both, you would roll two superiority dice for the same damage roll. Which is not allowed.
These modifiers are similar to a paladin's Divine Smite ability. He is not making an additional attack to apply smite damage; he is giving the attack smite properties for additional damage. This is not an additional attack or spell separate from the attack, but expending spell slot resources to add a modifier to the same attack.
A cheap way to get advantage on all attacks AND still be able to use combat maneuvers is to take a two-level dip into barbarian. A character with at least 3 Battle Master fighter levels and 2 barbarian levels is able to use Reckless Attack AND maneuvers to modify the same attack. While raging, you also get a modest damage bonus.
On Wasted Superiority Dice
You can only expend a superiority die for trip AFTER the attack hits and before you roll damage. If you miss with your initial attack, you are not able to expend a superiority dice to add the tripping property to the attack.
So, even if you were able to use feignt and trip attack on the same attack roll (which you cannot), you would never waste the trip manuver as if you missed, you could not activate trip.
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Is that better? If you think you can dig in and change it up, be my guest. I'm not picky as long as the intent is intact. Grammar is not my strong point. Rules mongering is however. ^.^
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– Play Patrice
Sep 18 '18 at 19:14
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You may want to add JC's quote from another answer to this as well as it can be construed to support your answer.
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– Rubiksmoose
Sep 18 '18 at 20:18
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Not sure where to find what you are talking about. Feel free to throw it up there. I trust ya. I'm easy goin. ^.^ Who is JC? or is that the Jeremy Crawford quote? Would that be considered plagiarism or answer cannibalization?
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– Play Patrice
Sep 18 '18 at 20:21
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I added a link to the Sage Advice and to the other answer you're referencing. I also corrected some minor inaccuracies; Reckless Attack requires 2 barbarian levels, not 1 - and the maneuver save DC of Trip Attack is not connected to damage at all. (Maneuver save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier (your choice).)
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– V2Blast
Sep 19 '18 at 2:18
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@James nah, the example in the twitter quote is a battlemaster using riposte to get an attack and then using another manoeuvre on the attack granted by riposte.
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– Carcer
Sep 19 '18 at 10:06
The intent is that you can't apply multiple maneuvers to one roll; Sage Advice addresses this
Per Sage Advice:
Question Asker: Hi guys can a fighter use 2 maneuvers - Riposte on enemy's attack & Pushing Attack on his attack? i.e 1/attack
Jeremy Crawford: The intent is no more than 1 maneuver associated with any attack. Riposte is in a gray area, but I would say no.
So no, since the Feinting Attack maneuver is already affecting your attack, you can't use another maneuver on it.
(In the asked case, Riposte triggering gives you an extra attack; that attack is "associated with" the Riposte maneuver, thus you can't use another maneuver on the attack. If that's a gray area that still has the Sage leaning no, then Feint+another maneuver, where you're literally adding both effects and damage dice to the same attack, is a definite no.)
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Whenever Jeremy says "The intent is...", there is clearly some ambiguity. I certainly wouldn't read this as a definitive "No"
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– David Coffron
Sep 18 '18 at 16:17
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There's ambiguity in that case, but Jeremy is clarifying the intent behind the rule. The case presented in this question is even more clear-cut when you apply Jeremy's stated intent; I've editted my answer to make that clearer.
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– Xanthir
Sep 18 '18 at 16:19
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RAW is slightly ambiguous, as others have already stated. I literally referenced Sage Advice in my heading, so the fact that this is RAI seems clear. (It's not a case of RAI conflicting with RAW, so it's not like that's a particularly relevant distinction anyway; this is just clarifying a situation where RAW can be read slightly more permissively.)
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– Xanthir
Sep 18 '18 at 16:25
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I find this answer irrelevant. Riposte is a reaction. I am not attempting to add anything to riposte because it’s not the “attack action”. You make an attack using a reaction. I was never unclear on this. That is not what this question was about.
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– James
Sep 19 '18 at 8:36
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@James: The rules say: "You can use only one maneuver per attack." This does not refer to the Attack action however, just any attack. It would be capital-A "Attack" if they were referring to the Attack action.
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– Rubiksmoose
Sep 19 '18 at 13:44
By using Feinting Attack you apply an ongoing affect to a creature using your bonus action. This effect triggers on your next attack.
As specified in the Feinting Attack,
You can expend one superiority die and use a bonus action on your turn to feint [...] Until the end of the turn, you have advantage on your next attack roll against that creature.
A Feinting Attack is triggered using your bonus action. The Maneuvers section specifies that
You can use only one maneuver per attack.
However, you will have used one maneuver on your bonus action, the effect of which takes place on your next attack. On your next attack you may choose to add whatever maneuver you see fit.
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Potentially related: Can more than one battle master maneuver be used in the same attack?
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– NautArch
Sep 18 '18 at 12:52